Season 4, Episode 2: Max Mendez, North Idaho College
Prof. Max Mendez discusses his research on the Amusia disorder (tone deafness), and his use of Body Mapping as it relates to singing and the choral rehearsal.
Transcript
Hello and welcome to Texas State choirs today. I'm
Unknown:your host, Jonathan Babcock, and I'm here with Mr. Max Mendez,
Unknown:the director of choirs at North Idaho College. He has a career
Unknown:as both conductor and singer. He's been with us here to today
Unknown:working with our ensembles, and teaching in our music education
Unknown:classes. He's been really fantastic. Mr. Mack Mendez,
Unknown:Welcome to Texas State.
Unknown:Thank you so much. It's
Unknown:my pleasure to be here, as our main audience is undergraduates.
Unknown:So I always like to start off the interview, asking about your
Unknown:undergraduate experience, not only where did you go, but how
Unknown:did it form you? How did you how did it make you who you are?
Unknown:Oh, absolutely. Well, I will say I have a very diverse background
Unknown:and under undergraduate education. I started at a state
Unknown:school in California, I'm originally from Oakland,
Unknown:California, did not feel a real strong connection to that
Unknown:institution, but found a community college where I found
Unknown:my love and passion of music. Prior to that most of my music
Unknown:experience was done in church in context of a church choir and,
Unknown:and what we might call a pre Vatican two folk group. And that
Unknown:was, though that was the extent of my musical background. But
Unknown:it's through the community college where I really picked up
Unknown:the deficiencies that I that I that I that I needed, I needed
Unknown:to strengthen skills and gain more mastery of skills before I
Unknown:transferred to a university. And then I went to Cal State Long
Unknown:Beach, and I studied, I was originally a music ed major,
Unknown:switch to vocal performance. So I can get one hour lessons
Unknown:instead of half hour lessons, I found that I really loved the
Unknown:stage. And that was really my calling for, for my early 20s
Unknown:into my 30s. And was was bitten by the audition bug in the
Unknown:performing bug. So I left that institution early to, to craft a
Unknown:career as a performer and ended up wanting to raise a family
Unknown:moving to the Inland Northwest and looked for an institution
Unknown:where I could finish my bachelor's degree and then go
Unknown:directly into my master's degree. And that was Eastern
Unknown:Washington University. And that's where I met Dr. Brink
Unknown:Meyer. She was one of my mentors. One of my graduate
Unknown:conducting teachers on the panel have my master's degree. My
Unknown:thesis, no, this has been a nice reunion. Absolutely. And I from
Unknown:that, from that experience, I've taken so much from what I've
Unknown:learned from her and my other my other professors at that
Unknown:college.
Unknown:One of the things that I really took note of as I was reading
Unknown:your bio, and stalking you on Google, was that you still
Unknown:maintain a career as a choral conductor. And as a singer. And
Unknown:we've discussed a minute ago, before we started about how
Unknown:difficult that is to do to maintain your vocal health while
Unknown:you're teaching. How do you manage both?
Unknown:Well, I, as a young performer, no was not in my vocabulary.
Unknown:It's one of those things where you have to take where you don't
Unknown:want to miss out on opportunity. And so I was I would, I would
Unknown:say yes to a lot of things. And I had the energy and the
Unknown:stamina. And I wasn't my musical interests weren't and career
Unknown:wasn't as diverted as it was, now that I now that I teach full
Unknown:time on my in my 17th year at North Idaho college, I really
Unknown:I'm really careful on when and how much I take on these days.
Unknown:Yeah, my career as a solo performer on the operatic stage
Unknown:of the concert stage becomes less and less because my desire
Unknown:for to be in the classroom to be in the on the podium is is
Unknown:really takes a lot of that attention away but I'm just very
Unknown:careful about what I decided to do. And when I decided to do it,
Unknown:a lot of my performing may happen outside of the school
Unknown:year. So I have time to prepare for that. So
Unknown:balancing out your calendar and really taking Absolutely,
Unknown:I'm also finding I'm also finding a that I I'm enjoying
Unknown:singing in what I'd say semi professional professional
Unknown:ensemble opportunities singing in, in, in higher level higher
Unknown:level choirs where where it's a small group and we meet for a
Unknown:project oriented concert and and descend upon location and
Unknown:rehearse and then and then sing. Do several recording projects.
Unknown:I've had the honor to sing with Tim sharp for the he's is now no
Unknown:longer the executive director of a CDA, but his touring group
Unknown:that that tours a lot of his compositions, and I've been able
Unknown:to travel the world and record with him. And again, very
Unknown:carefully timed out to make sure that fits with scheduling. And
Unknown:so I can devote as much time as I can for my students that the
Unknown:institution,
Unknown:you know, I really think it's important for no matter what
Unknown:level you're teaching at, that your job is not the pinnacle of
Unknown:your musical experience, that you go out and join a community
Unknown:choir or had some kind of musical experience, especially
Unknown:when you're teaching public school, I think hanging your
Unknown:musicality on children isn't helpful.
Unknown:Yeah, I think I think sometimes you, we get comfortable at the
Unknown:podium. As I like to say, I'm a perpetual beginner, I like I'd
Unknown:like feeling of what it is to be a beginner at something. And
Unknown:whether it's a new language, or a new style of music, or a new
Unknown:musical challenge, to go in it with a with a with with a
Unknown:beginner's mind, puts you in the place of that first time singer
Unknown:walking into choir, or that freshman, who was who was who
Unknown:was who was has done a great job in their ensembles in high
Unknown:school. But taking that next step and continuing to sing that
Unknown:that vulnerability, I think, I think being a beginner, putting
Unknown:yourself as a conductor in those positions to where you can feel
Unknown:like a beginner, so important for for just to build empathy
Unknown:from the podium.
Unknown:One of the things you spent quite a bit of time on, I think
Unknown:you had a sabbatical in the spring of 2019. And there are
Unknown:two topics that you spent quite a bit of time researching. And
Unknown:I'd like to get to both of them. The first I'd like to talk about
Unknown:is a museum. And it's a it's a defect in processing sound is
Unknown:that sound and
Unknown:rhythm sound and resounding. Yeah. And the the interesting
Unknown:thing is, it's it, it afflicts a very small amount of our
Unknown:population, I think it's about three or 4% actually have a
Unknown:neurological condition or a congenital condition that that
Unknown:doesn't allow them to process music. And when we think about
Unknown:the steps that it takes to replicate one sound, even as as
Unknown:a as a singer, there are several senses, senses that come into
Unknown:play, your sense of hearing, your oral sense, the sense of
Unknown:processing, neurologically processing that pitch, and then
Unknown:the physical process of replicating that pitch, and then
Unknown:discerning that pitch. It's it's daunting when you break it down.
Unknown:And it's something that many of us are able to do automatically.
Unknown:But there are some folks that that we've all come across those
Unknown:those those people, students, community members that may come
Unknown:and say, Well, I was told I can't sing. Maybe there's a
Unknown:traumatic experience for them that has stunted their cognitive
Unknown:growth. I think I think they, the studies have shown that
Unknown:about the age of eight or nine, you can you have a firmly
Unknown:established sense of pitch, they might not be refined, but you
Unknown:can approximate pitch by hearing it and then and then singing
Unknown:back. And unfortunately, there are there are some that that
Unknown:because of the this trauma, maybe a loud noise has has as
Unknown:disrupted as caused trauma, or an emotional trauma of telling
Unknown:somebody that they can't sing or they have no musical ability has
Unknown:stunted that growth. And the and a lot of people identify with
Unknown:with a Musiah while not actually having it. And I think that's a
Unknown:that's something that that that quite literally breaks my heart.
Unknown:Because I wanted
Unknown:to ask you about that. How do you tell the difference between
Unknown:someone with amusia and someone that just hasn't been taught to
Unknown:match pitch and didn't have that kind of education or exposure?
Unknown:What's what's the difference?
Unknown:I think, I think the first difference is is you you go and
Unknown:you seek out medical a medical diagnosis and make sure that
Unknown:it's not a medical condition. And then from there, you you my
Unknown:my philosophy is loving where they're at, meet them, meet them
Unknown:where they're at, and use as use as much as much information as
Unknown:you can get your hands on to help them achieve that. That
Unknown:that proficiency of gaining pitch even if it's just matching
Unknown:one pitch, that's a victory. And then from there you go to and,
Unknown:and you can use lots of different ways to do that I
Unknown:studied with a, with a teacher, Laurel Pumphrey from southern
Unknown:Idaho, and are Eastern Idaho. And she was, she had a, she had
Unknown:a very good system of taking students through through this
Unknown:process. And, and helping guide them, even starting with walking
Unknown:around and listening to sounds and being able to say, discern
Unknown:whether it's a higher pitch or a lower pitch at using using that
Unknown:that sense, in a non musical fashion. Allowing them to use
Unknown:their tactile sense to feel roughness and smoothness to find
Unknown:pitch, helping them feel vibration, by by using their
Unknown:their, their, their sense of touch to hold somebody's lyrics
Unknown:in and hum and have them feel that same vibration, allowing
Unknown:them to find a vowel shape and and allowing them to be able to
Unknown:sustain pitch, it might not be the it's not a matter of playing
Unknown:the pitch on the piano and having them having them hum the
Unknown:pitch, but having them sustain a pitch and then you match it so
Unknown:they can hear what that unison.
Unknown:And I know it I'm sure it varies a lot. But how long does this
Unknown:therapy, you know, how you get access? I mean, it was probably
Unknown:an impossible in my
Unknown:voice studio, I have I have worked with some students that
Unknown:that that it's hasn't taken very long. And I've had I've worked
Unknown:with students that this is this is a longer process. It just
Unknown:depends on the individual. And I think that the frequency in
Unknown:which in which they work and, and like we know everyone is
Unknown:different. So I believe that it's a it's an ongoing process
Unknown:for folks. So some for some it can be relatively short. And for
Unknown:some it's relatively long. I just listened to a Donald
Unknown:Brinegar from from retired from Pasadena City College. And he
Unknown:gave a really great short sort explanation of what he called
Unknown:Rainbow ears, where sometimes students, their their hearing,
Unknown:not the fundamental but they're hearing the overtones of a
Unknown:pitch. And so when they're not matching pitch, it could be that
Unknown:they're singing something that they hear that that's in the
Unknown:overtone series, and, and several of his strategies have
Unknown:helping students kind of find find that fundamental pitch.
Unknown:I'm wondering if there's any resources about this, I'm
Unknown:thinking for myself, you know, I have a church choir in Austin.
Unknown:And you know, you're always looking for new members. And I
Unknown:always have people the first thing they say to me is, Oh, you
Unknown:don't want to hear me sing? And I answer yes, I do. But I would
Unknown:love to have some Reese's resources or something to to go
Unknown:to to say let's see if we can find that voice because
Unknown:especially with older, older people, older singers, they have
Unknown:a hard time finding where their voice really works.
Unknown:Yeah. And and I would say Laurel Pumphrey has a great website.
Unknown:And she offers some some courses. I don't know if she's
Unknown:offering virtual courses on this, but, but she has some
Unknown:really great resources to help with that. She's, she has, she
Unknown:has been my go to and I did like I said, I went to a couple of
Unknown:her workshops and and really gained a lot of information from
Unknown:I will definitely check that out. Because even though the
Unknown:members that I've had for considerable amount of time
Unknown:their voices are changing and and can't find those pitches or
Unknown:hear them. I'm more curious about the lack of rhythmic
Unknown:skills. So how deep I mean is this someone's inability to walk
Unknown:in, in a row, because rhythm is everywhere.
Unknown:Every rhythm is everywhere. And that's one of the one of the
Unknown:things that I found very interesting. And I was I was
Unknown:perplexed about and one of the things that I discovered is that
Unknown:yes, sometimes we while we walk at a steady pace, we might not
Unknown:realize that it's steady. And and like you said rhythm is
Unknown:everywhere. And it's discovering that rhythm is everywhere. We
Unknown:don't think about rhythm when we're walking. In many cases we
Unknown:just walk right we walk we walk faster. And and allowing to make
Unknown:those connections with tapping, feeling with that feeling the
Unknown:movement of of a rhythmic pattern, doing a lot of call
Unknown:response. I think people tend with with with a rhythmic
Unknown:deficiency, we tend to not be familiar with the patterns. And
Unknown:I teach ear training in my college and and we do a lot of
Unknown:call response. And then once they get the feel of it, they
Unknown:feel oh, this is a rhythmic pattern. Then we go okay, what
Unknown:does that look like? And then now where do we see it in the
Unknown:music that we're looking at on every day? And so recognizing
Unknown:patterns in rhythm I think is is is incredibly important and If
Unknown:somebody hasn't been exposed to this idea that there are
Unknown:patterns and rhythm and rhythm, it's not random. I think I think
Unknown:that that could be a maybe hopefully an easier fix for
Unknown:them. And yeah,
Unknown:and I'm thinking in in an oral skills, one class, even if if a
Unknown:student does doesn't have the disorder, this information
Unknown:you're talking about, certainly could connect to that student.
Unknown:Yes. Particularly those that are in their freshman year and have
Unknown:never had any kind of training like yeah, to break it down. As
Unknown:you're describing. Yeah, it's like it could be really useful.
Unknown:Yeah,
Unknown:call responses your friend. Because because you can use
Unknown:shorter patterns. I look at I look at the journey of music,
Unknown:especially at at the collegiate level is, we're learning we're
Unknown:learning the language. In a relatively short time, as
Unknown:infants, we learn how to make sounds, we emulate sounds,
Unknown:whoever our caregivers are as children, we hear the sounds we
Unknown:emulate that we go to school, we hear we hear phonetics, we hear
Unknown:a consonant and vowel sounds, we replicate that, then we learned
Unknown:how to put the patterns together the end of kindergarten by
Unknown:hopefully by the end of kindergarten, you're learning,
Unknown:putting three letters through together, and you can say, cat.
Unknown:And by the time you progress into primary grades, you can say
Unknown:a sentence, you could write a sentence, you can write the
Unknown:sentence, and you can read it. By the time you get to high
Unknown:school, hopefully you're writing essays and reports, long
Unknown:paragraphs, and you understand what you're saying in music.
Unknown:Sometimes we expect our students to learn to be able to read a
Unknown:novel of musical novel in their first semester, when they're
Unknown:really just learning how to say the words. Yeah. And so so we're
Unknown:on an accelerated pattern. So I think we have to use some of
Unknown:those skills, those language skills that were that were used
Unknown:when we were infants in our infancy, like call response, and
Unknown:then help them recognize the patterns and then show them
Unknown:where it occurs in the music. Like that helps them to go
Unknown:towards literacy, especially a rhythmic literacy,
Unknown:any kind of learning, like, it's because I always think of
Unknown:language, the best way to start learning languages when you're
Unknown:five, an infant. And the farther you get away from that, the
Unknown:harder it is to learn a language I'm wondering if in the same
Unknown:thing, when does age play a factor in how these skills come
Unknown:back?
Unknown:I'm sure it does. I'm sure I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can.
Unknown:It's harder for us to learn as we get older, it's harder for me
Unknown:to be a beginner as I get older, because, because I it takes me a
Unknown:little longer to process, process information, especially
Unknown:things that I'd have no relationship with. And so I
Unknown:think as you as as even even in your 20s, it takes a little bit
Unknown:more effort. Because you're we're fixed in our bodies, we're
Unknown:fixed on our physicality, we've, we've we've established some,
Unknown:some some, some firm methods on how we learn and, and allowing
Unknown:us to release that and to and to learn in a in a, in a brand new
Unknown:way can be very daunting and problematic. But again, I said
Unknown:going into it as a beginner and allow yourself yeah, beginners
Unknown:fail on a high frequency and, and allowing, allowing our music
Unknown:students to fail. Isn't isn't that the end say okay, and and
Unknown:with, with with empathy, and say, Okay, this is how you get
Unknown:better, you have to fail along before you get better.
Unknown:Absolutely. And so yeah, just embrace the failure, embrace the
Unknown:fail make you better and don't let it define you. That's there
Unknown:there will be there eventually do you will you will be able to
Unknown:do it and and
Unknown:I'm still striving to do things as well. This topic of amusia is
Unknown:really fascinating, and I'm really grateful for you bringing
Unknown:it up. I also know you've done a lot of work in body mapping, and
Unknown:I'll be honest with you, I really didn't know much about it
Unknown:before I knew your we were going to do this interview and a
Unknown:little bit I read I have studied Alexander technique and it seems
Unknown:it's a bit similar to Alexander technique in terms of could tell
Unknown:us exactly about body
Unknown:Absolutely. body mapping in many ways is an extension of
Unknown:Alexander technique it but it's it's a it's what we call a
Unknown:somatic discipline, the study of movement in context of everyday
Unknown:life, and in my case, music and it was It was actually it was
Unknown:actually developed by, by two professors at Ohio State Barbara
Unknown:carnival and Bill carnival. And it was a, it was it was a system
Unknown:of allowing people to learn the principles of FM, Alexander,
Unknown:through self discovery through palpation, which means allowing
Unknown:your your your sense of touch and your kinesthetic sense to
Unknown:guide you through movement of the body, and allow musicians, a
Unknown:foundational, foundational setting where they learn the
Unknown:physiological and anatomical truths of the body, of how the
Unknown:body works. In the act of making music, which is in the act of
Unknown:movement, which is what musicians do for a living, move.
Unknown:Whether whether you move your arms to play a trombone, or to
Unknown:play a piano, or an Oregon, whether you use structures of
Unknown:breath as a wind instrument, or as a singer, whether you use
Unknown:your legs, your legs as an organist, marching band, using
Unknown:your bodies, and also being able to play play the instrument, one
Unknown:of the things that that was that was through through through
Unknown:studies have shown that onwards, up up to about about three
Unknown:quarters of professional musicians have or still play in
Unknown:pain or chronic injury. And, and that's when we look and we
Unknown:compare that to the athletic world. The athletic world has
Unknown:infrastructure in place to help players heal, and give them help
Unknown:them give give them preventative and coaching information so that
Unknown:they don't reinjure or their injury doesn't become chronic.
Unknown:And this is a place where that that is not really widely used
Unknown:in the musician's world. I probably probably we pulled a
Unknown:lot of a lot of folks, we they say, Yes, I have worked when I
Unknown:was injured, or I've been dealing with this chronic pain
Unknown:or, or, or my, my inability to move has led to some limitations
Unknown:on what I can do and what I can't do.
Unknown:I can answer yes. To many. Yeah, after, after a career of
Unknown:conducting Yeah, take a toll on your body. Absolutely.
Unknown:And so it was and so as a foundation, wouldn't it be great
Unknown:to learn how our body actually moves. And that's where body
Unknown:mapping comes in body mapping is the act of refining those body
Unknown:maps, creating a neurological image of how our body works.
Unknown:So give me an example. For example, talk about breathing
Unknown:and how your body
Unknown:so I've, I have been in ensembles, and no offense to any
Unknown:anybody I've ever worked with, who have used imagery to
Unknown:demonstrate breathing, a low breath all the way to breathe as
Unknown:though you had a belt of noses. So those heads, and for every
Unknown:single person in that room, that could be something very
Unknown:different. We think about a low breath, a low breath can mean
Unknown:Oh, does that mean my lungs are down towards my belt? How do I
Unknown:breathe from my How do I breathe through my belt. And so it can
Unknown:cause confusion. But if you if you even some simple, some
Unknown:simple instruction about where the lungs are located. Within
Unknown:in, in, in the in the thoracic cavity around the view, if you
Unknown:count your ribs up right about the route about the about the
Unknown:fifth rib up, that's where they have lungs, and, and then we
Unknown:have the diaphragm. We have ribs that move up and out when we
Unknown:breathe, just giving some practical information I traveled
Unknown:here with one of my smaller skeletons. I skate and I also
Unknown:traveled with some visual aids to show the anatomy of the body.
Unknown:As humans we all have, we all have similar anatomy, we may be
Unknown:different shapes and sizes, but we have similar anatomy and so
Unknown:that intention building a an intention within the whole a
Unknown:whole ensemble of how our body actually works.
Unknown:So take take that to the choral rehearsal and how would you
Unknown:introduce that topic of breathing in rather than using
Unknown:analogies but how would you do
Unknown:so I might introduce one structure. One of the things
Unknown:that I did this morning in the coral methods, classes I took
Unknown:the class through through what we call the six points of
Unknown:balance the the AO joint right where the where the ASA put and
Unknown:the C one vertebrae meet our our arm balance we learned where our
Unknown:arm is actually joined to the rest of our skeletal system and
Unknown:it's right here the sternoclavicular joint. And that
Unknown:that was that was an epiphany for a lot of students because if
Unknown:you ask them to point a lot of times they point at the top of
Unknown:their, of their arm. Yeah. And, and if you and if you end
Unknown:showing showing a skeleton showing the anatomy, you'll see.
Unknown:And you can feel that the movement starts here for the for
Unknown:the whole arm structure, talking about the lumbar spine, which is
Unknown:an important part of your balance, it's the, it's the,
Unknown:it's the thickest vertebrae set of vertebrae that go allows you
Unknown:the best the most structure where the hip joint is located,
Unknown:where the knee joint is located, where the ankle joint is
Unknown:located. That's the first step and, and ask them to explore
Unknown:that in a way that provides them balance and not rigidity, a will
Unknown:all of sudden, allow them to breathe, and you can Oh, you can
Unknown:monitor how does that help? How do you are you feeling that you
Unknown:can breathe easier, you can refine the maps of the mouth,
Unknown:you can refine the map. So the pharynx, the one that I find
Unknown:very effective is refining the map of the ribs, of how the ribs
Unknown:move up and out in a inhalation down and end in exhalation. And
Unknown:it just gives a different a different view of breath. And
Unknown:you can use metaphor, you can use imagery, for expression
Unknown:tools of expression. And, and but everybody is on the same
Unknown:page on how we breathe. I think that's an important part of, of
Unknown:body mapping, especially in the choral rehearsal room, you can
Unknown:get to a lot of a lot of other things, once those once those
Unknown:structures of breath are cleared up and, and, and use appropriate
Unknown:anatomical information, physiological information.
Unknown:That's I Milan that uses analogies. You know, when I talk
Unknown:about, you know, when a trumpet player cracks a note, the first
Unknown:thing they'll do is look at their trumpet like the trumpet
Unknown:did. Yeah, the the voice is so personal and we can't touch any
Unknown:of it. Yes, yeah. I so analogies are easy ways to get there.
Unknown:Although I also hear what you're saying the belt of noses is
Unknown:pretty ambiguous. Yes, yes. Where do you keep the balance
Unknown:between over simplification and too much information.
Unknown:And that really comes with with with finding language that
Unknown:refines that body map that gives them the information to form an
Unknown:accurate body map. And, and yes, you can go you can go very deep,
Unknown:you can start talking about the fascial system and how that
Unknown:molds our body and, and what its fascia. But I think in a in a
Unknown:choral rehearsal room, you can give you can give the singers
Unknown:enough information, they understand how the structure
Unknown:works, so that they can form an accurate body map. And so the
Unknown:movement isn't, isn't flawed, that the movement is accurate to
Unknown:where how the body actually works. I think intention is
Unknown:everything. And, and as long as intention is understood by the
Unknown:whole group. Having that foundation, yes, you can use you
Unknown:can use imagery and metaphor to help them explain that. But once
Unknown:they have that, once they have that strong body map, the
Unknown:intention becomes becomes apparent,
Unknown:and it's just a different metaphor, Episode more specific
Unknown:matters
Unknown:for us. Absolutely.
Unknown:Um, I am going to read more more about it and find out because
Unknown:I've always had that question just the term diaphragmatic
Unknown:breathing doesn't make any sense. No,
Unknown:when we when we map where the diaphragm is, the diaphragm is,
Unknown:sits underneath the lungs, and inside almost inside the ribs,
Unknown:and it moves, it moves from a highly dome positioned to a dome
Unknown:position. It never flattens out. And so and it's it's our it's
Unknown:our way of taking breath in and allowing air to escape. Air
Unknown:doesn't is not stored in that in that diaphragm. And, and so
Unknown:understanding even where the diaphragm sits, you might have
Unknown:kids who map the diaphragm down near their stomach near and more
Unknown:internal organs will higher it changes the way that they
Unknown:visualize
Unknown:so just tell us a little bit about your program at North
Unknown:Idaho and tell us about your students and your priors.
Unknown:Absolutely. North Idaho College is a is a community college that
Unknown:has about 38,030 800 students 30,000 So a smaller institution.
Unknown:We have a What I call a full service music program for
Unknown:anybody who wants to study their first two years in a music
Unknown:program. So we have first and second year theory in oral
Unknown:skills or training. We have first and second year piano
Unknown:courses, group piano classes. We have ensembles. And we have
Unknown:applied private lessons, we have a jury system at the end of
Unknown:every semester. So a student could take go their first two
Unknown:years at our institution and then transferred to what would
Unknown:call a four year institution in the area or anywhere in the
Unknown:country, and be able to take the diagnostic tests and things like
Unknown:that to to try to get to their junior status in that program.
Unknown:We have we have I currently conduct two traditional choirs,
Unknown:a chamber ensemble and a chorale. And the chorale is
Unknown:mainly made up of students and community members. I've had some
Unknown:members who have been in the group since the mid 70s. And I
Unknown:have and we have a we have a thriving homeschool community.
Unknown:And so I have had students who are as young as 15, in the
Unknown:groups looking for an artistic outlet performing arts outlet, I
Unknown:also additionally can conduct a commercial music ensemble, Oh, I
Unknown:like I like a rock band. And I saw that I saw that Texas State
Unknown:has a has a as a rock band. And I don't direct that group, I act
Unknown:more as a co producer in the group, everybody in the group
Unknown:takes a leadership position in that group, they will have one
Unknown:to three songs a semester that they will lead the group
Unknown:through, we tend to write our own arrangements, or create our
Unknown:own arrangements. And in the vocal component, a lot of times,
Unknown:it'll be student driven vocal arrangements. They'll write
Unknown:their own arrangements to put in there
